By Abendigo77 - 14/01/2013 04:49 - United States - Healdsburg
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I can understand being a vegetarian for moral reasons. You don't want to eat the meat of other animals? That's fine. But not eating animal products makes no sense to me. I've met vegans who think it's "cruel" to "harvest" animals for their wool, or their eggs, or their milk, or whatever. It's like...wtf? Are you serious? You do realize that chickens lay eggs every single day, and cows need to get rid of their milk or they can DIE, and sheep need to be shorn or they can get overheated or crushed under the weight of their own wool. It's not "cruel" to take these things from animals, when they usually need to get rid of them anyway.
30 you have a typo, "we eat meat for a reason" should be "we eat meat for reason" On a side note I've had a few vegan meals and their really not bad, being vegan isn't chewing on lettuce, seeds, and soy all day there actually a ton you can do with it and remember: booze is vegan so it can't be all bad
50- I just wanted to say that cows wouldn't need us to get rid of their milk if we didn't breed them and then take the calves away. Every dairy cow has been bred to produce the milk, but the babies are taken so that we can harvest that milk for ourselves. The female calves are either kept and bottle raised for later use as dairy cows or sold off, and the majority of the males are sold off to veal farmers, except for the rare exception that is used to sire more cattle. It is true that thousands of years of selective, domesticated breeding has left some cattle needing to be milked, because of the vast quantities of milk that they now produce, but most would be fine naturally because their young would be drinking that milk.
In addition to that, 56, a cow's milk production would simply dry out if they weren't milked on a.regular nbasis. As for sheep dying of heat, that only happens when we keep them in climates that are too hot for them, oftentimes in fields where they have barely any shade. Don't get me wrong, 50, I'm not a vegetarian or vegan myself, but your reasons just don't work.
It's the way the hens are kept that vegans object to, not to mention the fact that baby male layer chicks are killed at hatching because they don't produce eggs and they don't grow enough flesh to be profitable as "meat". As for cows, they only produce milk when pregnant, just like every other mammal. Unless you're a baby calf, you don't need to be drinking cows' milk. And for those of you who've bought into the protein myth, have you ever heard of "kwashiorkor"?
-.- if you don't understand why people go vegan why not do some research instead of spouting a bunch of stuff you think you know. (To all the ignorant comments). Really?! Lack of protein? Where did letting people eat whatever the heck they want go? If you do vegan right it's perfectly healthy (and I would argue much healthier than the average American diet), so why get on peoples' cases about it?
I only know two vegans. One had to be vegan or else he would die, he had cancer and a marrow transplant so his immune system is horrible, and the other was his wife to support him. Yes they live well enough but they miss meat and know that animal products are not a bad thing since those animals were raised for those specific reasons.
So buy your meat and eggs and chicken from small local farms instead of the factory farms. Y'know, places you can visit and they'll let you in to see the conditions the animals are kept in. For that matter, raise your own chickens and eggs and then you can't use the 'OMG ANIMALS ARE ABUSED' complaint without turning it back onto yourself. Issue solved.
Sometimes that's about the way farmed animals are treated. Eg, even with free range chickens they still kill all the male chicks at birth. Or with dairy cattle, the calves are killed early (for veal) and fed a milk substitute, so we can get the milk instead. They don't eat those products because they don't want to contribute to animal mistreatment.
You don't have to take the calf away from a cow in order to milk her. All you have to do is continue to milk her after the calf and she will continue to produce milk. My uncle raises cows (though not dairy) and yes they are separated from their mother but only when they are old enough to be weaned. Younger beef cows/bulls do eat better than the really old ones because the meat is more tender. I'm a deer hunter that prefers the yearling does above anything else because its the tastiest.
Can we just agree that what you eat is no one else's business? I've known people with allergies who would have had malnutrition on a vegan/vegetarian diet. I've heard of people whose health has improved after going vegetarian. Who cares? It's your life. Do what you want.
@157 - Actually, that's kinda the point. Some people SHOULD be vegans, and some people absolutely SHOULD NOT be vegans. One person's nutritional needs can be dramatically different from another person's, and said requirements can even change over time. In fact, most people SHOULD eat way more when they're 12 than when they're 30 or even 20 because of that whole growing an inch a week business a lot people go through when they're in their early teens.
I was vegan for 6 months before I realised what a waste of time it is. Training as a vet I see a lot of the farm industry, and it's nowhere near as bad as most vegans would have you believe. It's not perfect, but farmers and abattoir workers (in the UK at least) really do want the best for the animals. If for no other reason badly treated animals = poor productivity = no money. The problem is usually that the research they do is so one-sided, and often full of propaganda that almost makes them seem brainwashed. I've worked with some crazy vegans on work placements who are convinced that in the future the options will be 'vegan or die'.
The problem with hunting is the fact that only humans are the true over populated species. So is it fair to minimize our food source and add another human being to this Earth. I'm not vegan or vegetarian (though I try really hard, my mom just like to cool meat as much as possible when I try) but I do understand the fact that hunting really should be practiced until a more substantial number of animals are produced, and can be regulated, for there to be an extra number on our food source. At one point in time there might end up being no other kinds of animals on Earth besides us. What are you going to do then? Become a cannibal? Either way why hunt when we can't even feed our entire planet? Why hunt when humans are the number one overpopulated species? Why?
#171, just so you know, having additional children is more harmful to the environment than an already existing human eating meat is. Just saying. So you should be getting mad at parents, in particular those who don't adopt, not meat eaters. Seriously, every time I see an environmental fanatic/vegan with biological children, I just want to smack them for their hypocrisy.
My aunt was told by her dr. That if she didn't start eating animal protein she would probably die. Something to do with her liver. She looked HORRIBLE. At first it made her sick because her body went for about 15 years without it. Now she eats meat like 2-3 times a week and is doing fantastic.
1) If they killed every male chick at birth we wouldn't have a steady supply of chickens... you need to have males for reproduction. 2) If they killed every calf for veal we wouldn't have a steady supply of cows. 3) If you keep milking an animal, any animal, after its child has outgrown breastfeeding it will continue to produce milk. Your logic is unsound.
Meat has all of the proteins you need in it whereas plants only have half the meat you need. You need to eat more plants to get the same amount of calories and protein than you do with meat in your diet. P.S. If they killed the male chick at birth there wouldn't be any more chickens because the egg only contains half the DNA required to make a zygote. The eggs we eat are unfertilized but they need cocks in order to make more chickens.
Breeders don't need a lot of males in order to keep a good supply of the breed around. Most people have 1-5 good quality males of their chosen animal and breed those males to a variety of females that produce offspring with traits they want. They keep any males/females that will further their breeding program and sell the rest. So it is possible for them to kill off the males however it would probably make more sense to sell the unwanted chicks.
#172 - I do get mad at parents. I can't personally get mad at my own parents because they did adopt all of their children. I plan on personally adopting my children too. It just infuriates me when people hunt for fun and not for actual food. If you are actually hunting for a meal okay, but of you just go out and shoot an animal because its fun then yes I will look down upon you. It's a terrible thing to take someone's life away. Vegans are cool, vegetarians are cool, omnivores are cool, carnivores are cool, herbivores are cool. However taking away anyone's life just for the hell of it is NOT okay.
I notice that they see no hypocrisy in owning and feeding a cat though. It's like the vegan motto is "no animal should suffer captivity and death, unless Mr Snuggles is hungry". Why deny human nature for a self righteous crusade, then totally defeat the point of it with every can of cat food?
Wait until you get old and fat :) then he'll start calling you a cow and you'll have raised significantly higher in his estimation.