By not-religious - 17/12/2013 09:16 - United States
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I don't really see why this is getting thumbed down. That version in some ways does makes more sense, as it explains why Jewish children don't get presents as opposed to good vs. bad children. But if your grandma says things like this, OP, I'm sure it's not an isolated incident, so FYL and good luck getting through this week!
26 the real Santa has been disputed for a very long time, but he is a mixture of several different people who all gave gift to good children pulled from several different pagan rituals that were pulled together by the pope to make the conversation to Christianity easier by having similar rituals as their pagan worship. In the 1920 coco cola adopted "Santa" as an icon for the soda and made him the icon we all know today. I know that I am probably gonna get thumbed down or corrected but whatever. Santa has nothing to do with Christianity really, and Christmas isn't really about Christ, it's just a holiday spent in celebration with family and friends.
Well everyone can have their own thoughts about the meaning of the holiday. For people who aren't religious (like me), it could just simply be a holiday to spend with people you love. However, for people who are religious, it could mean something completely different. Everyone has their own interpretation of it.
No, 45, while a lot of different Christmas traditions come from the Winter Solstice (including the December 25th date) Santa Clause isn't one of them. He's based on Saint Nicholas, like I said, and he's been part of December celebrations since long before Coca Cola used him in their advertising.
#55: #45 isn't saying that the person, Santa Claus, was invented by the Coca-Cola Corporation; she's saying that we recognize Santa's current image based on Coca-Cola's marketing strategy back in the 1920s (red and white suit, white beard, fat and jolly). Of course, they didn't invent Santa Claus; they just updated his outfit. That's like thinking Coca-Cola invented polar bears because they drink Coca-Cola and wear scarves in their commercials.
You should explain to her that Christmas is about giving and everyone can participate.
No, Christ's birth was moved to December 25th to fall with the pagan festival of saturnalia to make to conversion to Christianity more appealing. In the bible Jesus said "do not celebrate my birth, but my death" I don't remember the verse or the book, because my bible is currently packed away. But Christmas really doesn't have anything to do with Jesus.
#33. I'm starting to get sick of explaining this to people on here... but here we go again lol. Christmas came about in the year 601 AD(or CE if you swing that way) as a Christian festival under Pope Gregory I. He sent a letter to the abbot Mellitus (who was on a mission to England at the time) explaining that to help with conversion, the Pagan festivals should be brought into Christianity and 'edited' to suit the new religion. This is actually in direct contradiction to the Bible, which states that no date other than passover should be marked. This is why Jehovah's Witnesses (amongst others) follow no festival (including birthdays, which is also a Pagan ideal). Their reason for Gregory doing this is simply because old habits die hard. Although Christianised, the former Pagans still followed the dates of their old festivals. So to take them under Christianity was viewed as the lesser of two evils. from 601 AD onwards, Christmas was moved from the 21st of December (Yule) to the 25th of December. Everything associated with it is Pagan, but was given a Christian makeover. O.P.'s grandmother is actually partially correct. Santa Claus is not Jesus, but is actually the God Odin (or at least, that is one of the main theories).
#Saint Nicholas is one of many explanations. It certainly explains his name. However the resemblance to Odin (for the pre Coca Cola Santa that is) is far too striking to rule him out. Especially considering that the Pagan festival of Yule was massive in Scandinavian countries. Santa Claus goes round each year at Christmas giving presents to good children in Stockings. Traditionally, Odin also did that at Yule. Santa has 8 reindeer - Odin has an 8 legged horse. Santa originally rode a horse before he rode a sleigh with reindeer (that comes from the song 'the night before Christmas'. But before that song was written, Santa rode a horse). Odin rode a chariot behind the afore mentioned 8 legged horse. Santa traditionally wore a grey costume. One of Odin's many disguises (he is a shape-shifter) was the grey wanderer. Santa is generally seen as very wise - Odin sacrificed his eye to gain wisdom. The list could go on.
None taken, we're very much in the minority especially once you start dividing by tradition, pantheon or organization. Certainly no argument on the subject of Christmas either. Where Yule is primarily a religious holiday,Christmas is both religious and secular. It's bound to have a larger draw.
#77. Although unclear that's what I was trying to imply with the first two sentences. The name was probably added to him a lot later than his first appearance in an effort to Christianise him. So having a Saint Nicholas/Odin hybrid actually makes a lot of sense. And if anything, is the most likely source for Santa. But the actual description of who Santa is and what he does, is clearly Odin (at least in my opinion amongst others).
To 51: I believe the verses you are looking for are: “ [Jesus] took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them (his disciples) saying, 'This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me" (Luke 22:19) And “A name is better than good oil, and the day of death than the day of one’s being born.” (Ecclesiastes 7:1) Note however that Jesus does not forbid the celebration of his birth. He merely says it’s important (or more important) to celebrate his death. To 54: I’m actually curious to know whether you can give me the reference for the verse in the Bible which states that no other date than the Passover should be marked. I’ve never come across it or any verse condemning other special dates, especially since there are so many festivals (with specific dates/weeks) mentioned in the old testament (ie Purim, jubilee year, week of unleavened bread after Passover day, etc). Certainly the Passover is the only one mentioned in the New Testament to be repeated, but if there is a verse directly condemning the practice of any other, I’d love to see it! Thanks!
98, I never lied. I said there weren't MANY Pagans anymore, not that there aren't any at all. I actually went to middle school and high school with a Pagan, so, yes I know that there are still some out there, although their numbers pale in comparison to those who practice other religions. Please see comment #68. I'd also appreciate an apology from you for arbitrarily accusing me of lying.
Well I'm not a good Christian and I'll still get presents from Santa
Don't try to argue with her. You know how they say by engaging with a troll you automatically loose. Same goes for religious fanatics and dishevelled elders.