By Ouch - 12/08/2009 23:36 - United States
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Well... you can save it for another time if you do happen to have a girl. :) Congrats! I love baby boys!!
I agree with your second point, but as for your first, just because it's possible to be more sexist doesn't mean the OP wasn't sexist in the first place. If the OP or his wife thinks the child would look good in pink, why should the baby's sex matter? That's being sexist. It may not be as bad as a lot of the sexism that's out there but it's still bad.
Yeah, always go with gender-neutral colours, it's common sense. To be honest I've always found this whole pink-glittery crap very confusing. Boys want to serve their country in the army, police the streets, fight fire or occasionally to be spideman. Girls either want to be a magical fairy princess or a occasionally a vet. I find it sort of ... strange. I don't "get" why people raise their children to be so illusioned about reality.
Okay. How did you not KNOW that doctors can be wrong about that? And 320, they never guarentee it. They just can't tell well enough, especially without it being 3D. And they always tell you that there's a chance that they are wrong. It's really only their job to tell as much as they can about the baby's health. The sex is a guess and a perk.
I agree with this thread. It's not like babies care about what color or style they're wearing anyway. It's all just for you and other people to look at in reality. And I think everyone should know nobody's certain of gender till the baby is born anyway. I think this goes with, "don't count your chickens before they've hatched." My room was yellow and green as a kid. I think that now, I appreciate my parents did that. Haha.
It's not a stereotype. It's been shown that girls are more likely to choose pink than boys regardless of 'pressure' to do so and the speculation among some scientists is that girls are more sensitive to reds and pinks because they need to be more in tune with spotting illness in their offspring which most often characterises itself with red/pink rashes. So there :p
Damn, I didn't know that, that's awesome. If I had a girl I'd go insane with girly stuff! Pinks, purples, blues, greens, yellows, little dresses, comfy shoes, comfy socks and pajamas and sheets and stuffed animals...baby shopping is hella fun. But I'm fifteen so I won't have the opportunity for a long long time.
I honestly hate all these feminist whining and crying about "gender binary" and how pink shouldn't associate with girls. seriously you have equal rights with men, you remind me of black people crying racist when they don't get hired for a job they applied for. all that is fixed and now everyone is in a way "equal". if you want your new baby girl to wear camo diapers and clothing go right ahead.
@381: sorry but that's total bullshit, just look at the actual statistics for pay (for same job) for men and women. Or any other standard measure. It's a lot better than it used to be, but we are not gender fair in this country (England) and worse in many others. Seeing as you mentioned black people- America still has massive inequality for black people... it's pretty shitty. To make this situation better, we must stay aware of the problem and always keep trying to fix it, so don't spread ignorance please.
be happy you got a boy you dont have to worry about pms now be glad about that
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OP, stop being so superficial. The original color for a baby boy was pink and for a girl, it was blue. Just because there is pink in the room, or around him means very little, except he'll be a passive, clingy, undecided person, who is easily influenced at every turn. Hell, he sounds like a world class politician already.
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WTF!? I'm sure if you were a boy and were put in a pink room you would write an FML.. also yeah, yeah about pink being for boys first but sadly it's the other way round now. No one gives a shit about old times. It's tradition to put a boy in blue and a girl in pink that's the way it is and she would look stupid if she took a boy out in a pink pram.
That happened to my mom, everyone thought I would be a boy but nope! Next time, decorate in yellow.
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WOW At least your kid is healthy and you have all of that stuff for him! Who cares what color it is? Geez. Gratitude much? "Thanks God for the baby... but it's not what I ordered." Yeah - you're not really starting out as such a great parent if your kid is already a disappointment. He's going to hate you when he's a teenager. YDI.
Okay, I agree with what you guys are saying, but he doesn't DESERVE it technically because there's nothing to deserve. Nothing there for an FML either, it's just pink. I mean, dunno if you know this man, but your wife is going to dress him up cutesy anyway. FML is cutely worded though, so maybe you DO know.
#70 is right. It's because the two of them bought all this stuff and might not use all of it, therefore wasting money. It's got nothing to do with being ungrateful that the baby is a boy. Besides, normally you'd give a child more boyish colors as he grows up so he doesn't become a girlish guy.
when you have an ultrasound and you ask to be told what the sex is.. they tell you that its not 100% forsure and you should never plan for that sex just incase. so its kind of the op's fault for not listening to the doctors instructions and picking out gender neutral stuff. and im pretty sire that you can bring the stuff back to the store and explain and they will take stuff back
buy a can of blue spray paint, problem solved. anyways YDI for assuming that ultra sounds are 100 % correct, also YDI it for buying all gender specific items before the baby even came out
How exactly was she sexist? And this is a pretty common occurrence. If the doctor tells you that you have a broken bone, you don't question him about how he puts the cast on. The doctor told her she was having a girl. It makes sense that she would buy girly colours in preparation.
I don't think you're aware of what the word sexist means. How does dressing girls in pink imply they are inferior to male babies??? And by your reasoning that we shouldn't force people into gender defined roles, are you saying you wouldn't be upset if your bf or father came home wearing a pink dress? Or that you would put you son if you had one in pink frills? There has been social experimentation done on children where they have given them toys and colours generally assigned to the other gender from a very young age, and it caused a lot of trouble in the childrens' development.
Sexism is not necessarily about inferiority. It can be so simple as saying "girls wear pink and boys wear blue". And fine, if you don't want to use the term sexism, how about unneeded gender discrimination? Also, if any male of my family or social circle showed up in a dress, I might have a bit of a laugh and then proceed to not give a damn. I really couldn't care less about gender definitions. I do actually know guys who will very casually walk around in miniskirts and I hardly behave according to typical female patterns, myself. As for the research you're referring to, I'll go with the old internet adage of "pics or it didn't happen". Sorry, but if you want to be taken seriously and quote research in order to prove me wrong, you'll have to come up with at least an article on it, preferably some research paper.
Sexism means there is an implied inferiority or bias. What exactly is inferior about the colour pink? If you want to imagine sexism is any difference then I guess you feel the commonly used Greek symbols to represent each gender are sexist because they're different. Honestly, if you don't get what sexism is I don't think you should be posting here. I very much doubt you have a lot of guys in your social circle who wander around in mini skirts, and that's a fairly pointless claim to make even despite it's lacking believability because men who cross dress in public are a very, very uncommon occurrence. And you avoided the questions I asked. Would you be perfectly happy to walk around in public, visit your school, go into your work with your father or boyfriend wearing a pink dress that is quite plainly not for some costume event? Would you dress a son if you had one like that? As for your highly intellectual "pics or it didn't happen" response, a quick google search would have turned up plenty of results. Also, shockingly, when people do research papers or publish books on the subject they don't actually then rush to publish their credible and published work on the internet. I know what you're thinking. "There's stuff I can learn from books that isn't on the internet?!? How?? Why?? Where can one acquire these so-called "books"??" Don't worry too much about that for now. Here's a link to a wikipedia about one of the better known gender experimentation's and the terrible repercussions it had on the child, who eventually committed suicide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer#Social_effect_of_David_Reimer.27s_story Sorry but your argument of "dressing girls in pink is sexist" and "never believe doctors" is ridiculous and you should stop embarrassing yourself further by trying to justify such ridiculous statements.
Exactly! What is inferior about the colour pink and why can't it be given to a boy? The fact that the OP makes such a fuss over it does, therefore, make them sexist. No, I don't have a lot of crossdressing guys in my social circle, but they're there and I don't care. The fact that they're rare is actually a rather shortsighted statement because you never know who might be a member of an LGBT society where, I assure you, there are plenty of crossdressing guys. Furthermore, I wouldn't care if my brother or my dad escorted me into town in crossdress. I know you'll refuse to believe this, since you seem convinced that everyone would be horrified to experience this, but it's true. And I might actually make my male baby wear dresses. why the hell wouldn't I? Also, if you're going to make claims about experiments, it's not my job to do the accompanying research. I'm not sure, by the way, why you're referring to this particular experiment. We're talking about boys wearing pink or other things perceived as girly, not about complete gender reassignment. The two are, I assure you, quite different. Therefore, I'll have to say it does not apply. I never said not to believe doctors. I simply said that it is wrong to assume they unequivocally right. They can make mistakes, after all. I will also stick to my original statement of dressing girls in pink is sexist. No colour should have a primary association with gender. The fact that you tink I'm embarrassing myself is also a bit silly. You probably think so because you believe me to be incredibly wrong. I, however, think you're wrong. This just shows that it depends entirely on point of view. In the end, would you mind keeping the ad hominem attacks to yourself? I am quite well read and do actually have a degree that did involve some developmental psychology. Using these attacks just makes you look immature.
And what is inferior about the Greek symbol commonly used to represent females, and why can't it be used for men? Why do the bathroom signs have skirt-wearing stick figures on them to represent the female bathrooms? Why do schools provide skirts as the uniform for female students? OH NOES, IT MST BE BECAUSE THEY'RE INFERIOR AND IT'S SEXIST!!! Right? Because that's what your logic would imply. It's actually because it would be confusing and retarded, you fucking moron. Like I said, if you do have cross dressing guys in your social circle, regardless of believability, it's totally irrelevant, and I explained why, so why would you bring it up again? It is not short sighted. It would be unusual in any major city where you walk past hundreds of people on the street to see a man dressed in womens clothing. Claiming to have done some psychology in university doesn't actually give you a free pass, but is all the more reason you should be aware cross-dressing is generally the result of gender identity issues and not normal. I'm not sure at all why you think your apparent social circle or views on cross dressing are remotely relevant to this. They're not. If you're going to disagree with my claims, then yeah actually, it is your job to do the "accompanying research" of taking 5 seconds(a whole lot less time than it took you to type out that bullshit sentence I should point out) of typing it into google. You should also be aware since you apparently attended community college, that most researched and published material is not available online. You started out saying dressing kids in gender related colours is "shoving them into the pre-made boy/girl-mould(I'm hoping you mean "mold") from the second it's born", and now you're claiming dressing them in colours and styles associated with the opposite gender is nothing? The fact is, colours play a part in gender association and as research has shown numerous times, gender confusion in childhood does lead to identity issues. Back on topic though, I've explained to you yet again why it isn't sexism, and why it's ridiculous to claim it is. And while I exaggerated the "never believe doctors" part of your original point it is essentially what you were saying; that she shouldn't have believed her doctor because they can be wrong and she deserves it. I mean, honestly, if your doctor says your cold is bacterial, and prescribes you some antibiotics are you going to go take the more neutral option of taking vitamins because he could be wrong? I actually responded to all your points, and pointed out what you had failed to respond to(again, I notice you've failed to say whether you would be ok with your bf wearing womens clothing and accompanying you to work and school, and my other example of why defining sexism as any difference is stupid and wrong) so don't cry too much about ad hominem attacks because it's a bit of an exaggeration seeing as they were based on what you were saying, especially when your last sentence makes that a bit hypocritical. I also find it hard to believe anyone who is well-read would struggle with the basic definition of "sexism", but whatever.
Honestly, I'm not even going to bother with you anymore. You keep using ad hominem attacks - which just makes the argument decline - You're using bullshit logic, you twist my words and you're generally an idiot. Suffice to say: Dressing girls in pink and boys in blue = shoving them into little shapes that make no sense. (By the way, 'mould' is correct. It is British English. Next time, check a dictionary). Dressing children in any colour, including that associated with the opposite sex = normal. If you're referring to research, you have to hand in the proof. That is how things work. Or do you write papers and then say "well it's your job to do the research about my points" to your teacher? Gender confusion in childhood does not automatically lead to gender issues in later life. I will refer you to my girlfriend's family. She was treated however she wanted to be, whether it be in a girly or a boyish way. Result? One girl who is treated like a princess by her Dad. Shockingly, she wore blue as a child and does not like the colour pink. And even worse, she grew up in a family where the parents' usual roles are reversed! Her father is a stay at home Dad who cleans and cooks and her mother goes out to work. It's really unbelievable that she came out fine. As did her sister (who is a 'tomboy'). A diagnosis of something as simple as a cold is something entirely different from judging the sex of a child which depends on low quality images. I'm not sure where you were going with this comparison. You want to know why I didn't respond to the boyfriend claim but used male family members? I don't have a boyfriend! I have a girlfriend! I am a lesbian! Oh no! Does that answer your rather annoying insistence? I'm curious to know how calling me a moron or implying that I don't read applies to what I was saying. But hey, I thought I'd level the playing field. For the record, I did not actually attend community college, but what the hey, whatever makes you feel smarter. You seem to need it. I actually went to college in Belgium, a country actually known for rather high educational standards. In the end, perhaps sexism really isn't the best word and we should talk about gender determinism, but I don't believe that most people would understand it as it is a rather academic term. I did not actually know it myself until my girlfriend mentioned it, based on her philosophy and literature classes. Now I won't reply anymore as anything further really will just degrade into me taking the piss.
No. Very much no. She was never treated as a boy. She was treated only as herself. And by the way, being LGB is not a gender disorder. Thank you very much. It is, in fact, biological and not determined by any treatment during childhood or how you're raised. Otherwise, all children of religious homophobes would be straight and we know they're not. Furthermore, she's not a lesbian, she's bi.
@#273 I never said it was a disorder, but to say that childhood experiences can NEVER affect one's sexuality is ignorant. In fact, and I'll use your own example here, I'd wager that some (certainly not all) gay children that came from religious homophobes "became" gay due to lashing out at their parents' intolerance.
It's genetic. The only effect childhood experience can have is that the person willingly suppresses it. One does not 'become' gay. Also, if you want more examples, I know a guy who, until he was about sixteen, looked like a girl. He had fine bone structure, not very tall, rather skinny, long and pretty hair, etc. Yet, he came out straight and with no gender disorders. Gee.
You're not going to respond to my perfectly valid points you have continued to ignore, because me calling you a moron for being unable to respond to logical reasoning with an actual rebuttal makes them suddenly not exist for you? Sorry, but that is pretty much what this response implies. Perhaps while you're looking up the definition for "sexism" you could look up the definition for "hypocrisy". That is probably the lamest attempt I have ever seen from someone trying to back out of an argument they've suddenly realised they don't know shit about. Pink is the associated colour with girls, blue is the associated colour for boys. A skirted stick figure is associated with girls, while a plain stick figure is associated with boys. Why would you claim that pink being assigned to girls is sexist, while skirted figures on toilet doors is not? Sorry, but it is not logical to try and apply the label sexism to gender associated colours unless you're going to label everything that differs between genders sexism. Dressing girls in pink and boys in blue does make sense, for many reasons, the most obvious being gender identification by others. If you don't care what other think, that's fine, but most people won't want to explain every time they take their child out that their baby dressed entirely in pink is there son every time. You're arguing relentlessly about sexism and feminism and claim to be well read. It's fair to presume you should have some idea of the effects of gender association. When you make a bull shit claim about something being sexist and forcing a child into a gender role you should have some idea of what you're talking about. That's how it works.. If you don't, and don't wish to believe someone who does have an idea of what they're talking about, generally one would do a quick search that would take less than the time they spent crying the equivalent of "I don't believe you and it doesn't agree with me so it's not true!". Sorry, but we're not in school and if you start discussing something it is going to be presumed you have some idea of what you're talking about and the other person isn't going to have to go off and find you very basic information that should be known to someone entering this discussion. Regardless of this, I did provide you a link of one of the better known, and therefor easily accessible via the internet(because, as I reminded you earlier, I published writer or researcher doesn't scurry off to make all that available online, hence why those buildings called "libraries" haven't changed their names to "things to burn this winter"), which shows the effects that gender confusion can have on a person. There are many other books and papers available on this. I suggest if you want to continue claiming to be well read or knowledgeable about this subject you head down to your local library and actually read them rather than claiming it's other people's job to back up what should be common knowledge to someone making the claims about the subjects you keep bringing up. The comparison of colds is not that different. It can be viral or bacterial. Your doctor could be wrong in saying it's bacterial, and you could be taking antibiotics for no reason, which isn't really a great thing. Ultrasounds are not really low quality images. They are actually mostly 3D images now, and regardless are read by professionals trained to examine the pictures and measure different parts of the foetus. They aren't often incorrect, which is why they offer to tell you to tell you the sex. Yes, often they say "It's possible we're wrong", but they also often say that when writing you a prescription for your antibiotics for your cold. Please stop spinning off into personal tales of what happened to your friends friend. As you used your "school classroom" example earlier, you'd hardly use a friends experience as evidence in an article you were writing to prove a point, and it is also entirely unprovable, unlike my reference to the research conducted on gender identity earlier, which you could easily have searched before making yourself appear ignorant on any actual research asides from what happened to your friend. I'm really torn by whether claiming this FML is a case of gender determinism(which is SUCH an academic term, you're right, I'm sure NO ONE would understand it, you clever cookie, you) is more or less retarded than saying it's a case of sexism, but seeing as it's such a hard cal to make I'm just going to say that what your girlfriend heard in her philosophy class and repeated to you and you reinterpreted here probably isn't going to agree with anyone else's definition of gender determinism anymore than your ridiculous idea of what constitutes sexism is. And I had kind of really hoped you were already taking piss by being ironic about how ridiculous some women can get while claiming it's feminism when it's quite blatantly not, but it would appear you're just being plain ridiculous.
Oh God. Reading the other responses and this is getting pretty fucking hilarious. I don't even know if you're serious or not anymore. Any actual research on a topic that is easily available from a quick google search doesn't count, but stories of what supposedly happened in the live of numerous friends of yours does? I mean, you don't actually make such a retarded argument on purpose, right? Troll or total hypocritical moron.
@#277 "It's genetic. The only effect childhood experience can have is that the person willingly suppresses it." It's not proven either way; I take the open minded approach and say that one can be born gay but can also be "turned" (for lack of a better word, hence the quotes) gay. "One does not 'become' gay." You have no right to say this. Many people are born gay, like you, but some are also "turned" gay from traumatic experiences in their early childhood or rebellion against homophobic and closedminded parents. "Also, if you want more examples, I know a guy who, until he was about sixteen, looked like a girl. He had fine bone structure, not very tall, rather skinny, long and pretty hair, etc. Yet, he came out straight and with no gender disorders. Gee." I have no idea what you're trying to prove here.
"You have no right to say this. Many people are born gay, like you, but some are also "turned" gay from traumatic experiences in their early childhood" Uh huh. Basically, no one "chooses" who they are ATTRACTED to. "or rebellion against homophobic and closedminded parents." Lol cool story bro.
@#297 "Uh huh. Basically, no one "chooses" who they are ATTRACTED to." I never said that one day some 23 year old or something goes "I guess I'll be gay now" or "I guess I'll be straight now" when they've been the opposite for the rest of their life. But traumatic experiences during young childhood can definitely alter one's sexuality. Especially sexual abuse from adults. "Lol cool story bro." Memes don't make you cool especially if you don't know how to use them.
Fun fact, the color pink was considered the manly color in the early 20th century due to its relation with the color red. It wasn't until the 1940s that pink became associated with femininity. OP: This is not a FML. Your baby isn't going to give a shit about the color of his clothes or toys until he starts exhibiting sex-linked behaviors after a couple of years. And even then, there's no guarantee that he won't like playing with "girly" toys. Aren't gender stereotypes fun? YDI.
How many of these people saying pink is fine for boys would really dress their baby son in pink dresses or pink, fairy adorned suits?? I very much doubt most of you would, if any. Is it going to cause long term psychological damage to the kid? No, probably not, although given the results of some past gender experimentation where the children were encouraged from a very young age towards colours and toys generally preferred by the other sex, you can't actually say that with complete certainty. Is the kid going to say "WTF were you thinking" to you when they're older and looking through their baby photo's and be embarrassed when their future partner see's them? Yes, most likely. Are you constantly going to be explaining to strangers in the street who compliment your baby daughter that it's actually your baby son? Yes, if you plan on leaving the house. Are all of you overly judgmental assholes who should get a life before jumping down someone's throat with a "YDI FOR BELIEVING THE DOCTORS AND BEING TOTALLY SEXIST!!"? Without a doubt.
I agree with everything you said. It would suck to be looking at photo albums when your a teen with your partner and your dressed in pink when your a boy or when your dressed in blue as a girl. Also ultrasounds do work sometimes. My cousin had an ultrasound with both of her kids they said the first one was a boy and guess what he was a boy and on her second one they told her she was having a girl and GUESS WHAT1!!! She had a girl. Ultrasounds do work.
There is nothing wrong with being in blue as a girl, and as long as theres no flowers or pixies or what not theres nothing wrong with dressing a boy in pink. If the OP was smart, they would have gotten white, yellow, green, or some other colors in there as well. The good news? They could paint the crib (and not with lead based pain to the a$$ who mentioned that.) and as far as clothing goes? go buy a pack of onsies, they are generally white and inexpensive. The clothes you have now will soon be out grown anyway.
girls can wear blue... but some clothing and things like that, that are blue look like they're for boys. OP i don't see how this is an fml though :/ you should've picked like light browns, yellows, greens... even purple can be unisex. i would've waited till i had the baby to go overboard with the pink.
right on Twinklestar - explaining time and time again to EVERYONE (who would assume) that your little bundle of joy in pink is actually a boy, not a girl, would become exhausting... let alone having to deal with the criticism some people would be bound to give once they find that out. Yes, it's wonderful news that the OP has a healthy baby and I am sure both parents are grateful for that. Is it ironic that they have a house full of "girl" items? Yes. Does that make this a funny FML? yes, and I think that's how it's intended, give the poor new parents a break!
All of you guys who are saying how ungrateful/stupid/terrible these parents are need to put yourselves in their places. They have a very new baby--and new babies are extremely exhausting--with the added stress of returning and exchanging all or most of the stuff they've bought or received for the baby. And frankly, if it happened to me, I would return/exchange the stuff as well--it's not a lot of fun to have to keep explaining that your baby is a boy and not a girl. Also, for those of you saying that "gender-specific" colors are ridiculous, have you considered that maybe some of the clothes or bibs, etc., say "Daddy's little GIRL" or something?
Hope you kept the receipts and can do an exchange for blue stuff (or whatever color you may want) Congratulations, btw.
That's what happened to my mother when she had me. Of course, Mom also wasn't expecting twins, and found out two weeks before birth. And found out she had a girl and a boy then. Today I wonder if that qualifies for malpractice.
and btw you think your kid will remember what colour it stuff was before it grew out of it at age 1