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Add a comment - Reply to : #
I feel like it would be better for OP to forge ahead and show that she is a valuable asset to the department she is at rather than give up at the first sign of hardship and find a new job.. After all, this is supposed to be the day and age where anyone can do anything! Show em who's boss OP! If nothing else, I'm sure they'll learn to respect you as a firefighter once you prove yourself in the field.
#125 as a girl I can wholly attest to the fact that guys will hit on you no matter how mean/nice/or flirty you are being. Even out right saying that you are not interested is either not enough to "convince" them or will lead to then turning violent with anger sometimes. Sadly it is because there is too much disrespect toward women and their feelings in such masculine-charged spaces
Look on the bright side! You must be attractive if coworkers hit on you or ignore you because of their wives.
Men aren't told by society that if they flirt on the job it means that they're a whore and can't do their job properly. People assume that if a woman flirts with even one person at work its to gain a better position because she can't get there herself. Therefore, yes, we like to keep professional and personal lives separate.
Well 68, I'm not going to go too deep into this, but you, as a woman, just stereotyped both males and females. Yes, some men disrespect and mistreat women, but not all. Yes, some women are indeed whores, but most aren't. Rather than focusing on the bad characters within either gender, why don't we focus on the good?
70, you just started a hell-storm that you're probably not prepared to take. Too fucking bad. I'll number things to make it easier to follow this time around. 1) Pointing out and commenting on negative stereo types of women is not perpetuating them. 2) Get the hell away from me with the whole "not all men" bullshit. I don't give a shit if it's not all men, because this isn't ABOUT men. I care that EVERY SINGLE WOMAN knows what it feels like to have the legitimacy of their positions questioned and/or to be hit on even when they don't want to. Every. Single. one. Think about that, and if you're still more worried that some stranger on the internet may have implied that your attitudes are a problem rather than realizing that there's a problem for women like OP, you're probably part of the problem. 3) Have you ever wondered if people won't take you seriously in your career if you go on a date with a colleague? Have you ever had to worry that people will assume you're sleeping with someone or that you didn't earn it if you get a promotion? The answer to this is very likely NO. These are shitty attitudes attributed to all women in the work field that men don't experience. 4) The only women that are whores are prostitutes (because OH LOOK WHORE MEANS PROSTITUTE). Promiscuous women are not "whores" any more than a man who sleeps with various women is. 5) I said that PEOPLE think about these stereotypes. Yes, that includes other women as much as men. It's been driven into our brains to think these things right off the bat, and unless we stop to think about WHY we think this way, and re-evaluate these attitudes, it can cause serious problems. 6) 58 had said that men and women differ because men flirt happily without really having to worry about their job (Yes I'm paraphrasing), and I provided an explanation for why men and women differ in this area. If you can't handle that explanation because it hurts your pride, too bad. That's the society we live in and while people are working hard to try and change these attitudes, it's how things are for now. THERE. That should address any issues you may have. If not, reply here or PM me and we can continue this conversation.
74, I completely understand and agree with your argument, but you got really angry really fast. Your comment was a little rude to the other guy (who was in no way bashing women but was merely pointing out that not all men are like that), and I think you could've gotten your point(s) across without the rudeness.
First of all, I was accused of stereotyping men and women. If that's what he thinks was happening, he clearly needs to re-evaluate his understanding of what it means to stereotype someone. Secondly, the attitude of "not all men" in response to any women's issue when someone points out problematic aspects of men's attitude is used to dismiss and disregard the argument at hand by essentially saying "Not all men are like that so your point is irrelevant", which is why I explained that this is NOT about men. At all. In no way shape or form. This is about OP being excluded and therefore, the phrase "not all men" has no place here. Lastly; I am not required to be polite when someone is saying all this kind of shit and encouraging this mindset.
Okay #70... If you want to learn about why your comment is offensive, I suggest reading up about a few things. Firstly, why blindly screaming "not all men!" is unproductive and annoying. Summary: it takes away from women's stories and experiences, and tries to make it about YOU. If I were listening to a black person's story about how white people had mistreated them / their family, I would not stand up and shout "NOT ALL WHITE PEOPLE!"; that's clearly insensitive and meaningless, and seems like you're trying to demean their struggles. Secondly, "some women are whores". Another derogitory word used by men (and even women) to control women. More accurate: some women like to have sex with multiple partners / sex without emotional ties, others do not. Men are "allowed" to act in this way; let's not brand women as "whores" for indulging in consensual sex. If a woman or man sleeps with someone who is in a relationship, that is highly immoral and cruel, but there is still no need for labels such as "slut" or "whore". I understand that it is easy to overlook gender bias in society if it doesn't directly affect you, the same way that, as a white person, it's easy to have conversations about racism and then step away from the conversation unaffected, whilst others who are deeply involved may be hurt. Edit: I see many other people have got here first! Haha, my comment just backs up you guys then :)
I don't think 74's comments were rude at all. She was simply stating facts, which are true. Her tone was fairly assertive (seemed to be to me at least) but sometimes assertiveness is necessary to get a point across. Funny how some people perceive assertiveness in women as "rude".
#2 that's not the bright side. That is like telling a woman who has to deal with sexual harassment that she "should take it as a compliment" and dismisses her problems. No one likes sleazy old men that you are not attracted to or interested in especially when they are your coworkers in a professional setting hitting on you. It's not fun being treated like a slab of meat. It's part of why it's so hard for women to be taken seriously in male-dominated career fields.I also hate when men pretend like they would "love" for the same treatment when thy all imagine young hot women they are attracted to that don't have any power over them. The situation is entirely different when they have power over you, you may be scared of stalkers etc an also again that it hinders your social and work life. Just know that it really doesn't help to say those kind of things to women facing these systemic problems
Speak for yourself, Kingdomgirl. I'm a woman, never have I been offended at being flirted with, nor does any man I;ve worked with doubt me and my capabilities. Not every single woman knows exactly how it feels to be WAY WAY WAY too overly sensitive, and really OP, you're there to work, to put fires out that kill people, and save lives, you're not there to socialize and make friends. I don't think all their wives are "jealous" of you, some of the men may just NOT be interested in you, ever think of that? Maybe they're afraid of you, and I certainly would be after this dramatic, whiny pity post you've made, pressing sexual assault charges on them for saying a flirty thing. Quit letting all your estrogen run your life, and get a thicker skin. YOU ARE A GOD DAMNED FIRE FIGHTER. YOU SAVE LIVES FOR GOD'S SAKE. YOU'RE NOT A BAKERY WORKER STUCK IN A DRESS AND HEELS ALL FUCKIN' DAY. ACT LIKE IT! YOU'RE TOUGH ENOUGH TO GO INTO A BURNING FUCKIN' BUILDING, ACT LIKE IT! Also, I do appreciate your service, honestly.
That's shitty, I am so sorry :( you should quit and join another fire department :D Forget those grannies
I feel that pain OP! So many people are like "oh stop complaining that people like you." Well it's fuckin difficult when you can't maintain any real friends. Sorry OP :(
Yep.. I've experienced similar situations , sadly. When I was more open about my gender online, every match I played with "Friends" they'd flirt nonstop, until I told them to stop, which of course ended what I originally thought would just be a friendship. Luckily for me I can play it off like I'm male online and no one could know otherwise.. Sucky situation for OP, but I do know how it feels.
Oh so you got hit on in online game. Shut up. It's nothing like OP's situation. No one had to know your gender, and you didn't rely on what you were doing for a living, and you didn't have to see any of those people face to face, nor did you ever have to interact with them again if you didn't want to. What you went through didn't even begin to compare with what OP is experiencing.
True, I was a bit overly harsh, and for that, I apologize. I won't say unwelcome advances and discrimination aren't unpleasant is any situation, however, my point that the two situations are on such completely different levels that the one isn't even worth mentioning remains valid. It's like comparing a bullet to a missile.
Oh yeah. I understand, no need to apologize. :) I should have clarified it's no where near as bad a situation, I was just simply trying to understand to the best of my ability how OP feels. Sorry if it came out badly. To be honest, I really am not a social person, basically all of my friends are online due to my anxiety problem which is why it seemed so dramatized. Again, super sorry for the lack of clarification. :)
I disagree that 20's comment wasn't worth mentioning. It was totally relevant corresponding to being hit on when it is not wanted and viewed in a romantic manner rather than that of a real person. The only difference is most likely the gamer's wives did not try to interfere. She has to act like a guy to avoid being harassed online. That's powerful. Why try to silence that?
Unfortunate, but on the upside. You are a firefighter! Something a lot of people, let alone females cannot accomplish. As for your co-workers, give it time. They'll stop looking at you as just another pretty face. ;)
*warning, feminists inbound* I think #10 only said 'specifically females' because unlike other physically laboring jobs, females have to pass the same physical requirements as men, and considering we're built differently that's quite an accomplishment for any woman to be on par with a male firefighter. Rather than being 'sexist' and just assuming that women have a hard time because they're women. It really is a rather daunting task, but one to be proud of when accomplished, in my opinion.
Because being a firefighter unlike being in the military or police force sets a physically demanding bar that a lot of women cannot overcome. I will never say women are weak. Some of my best martial arts instructors were women that could rattle my brain and lock my joints in a heart beat. But being a firefighter requires a lot of physical strength and endurance that women without a lot of hardwork and training won't overcome. It's just how the bodies of different sexes are usually built. In raw strength men have the advantage and a lot of a firefighters work(especially the test) comes down to raw strength.
Female firefighters don't NOT have to pass the same physical fitness and strength tests as males. I have a few guy firefighters that come to my job and affirmative action is one of the top sore spots that they bitch about constantly. I can imagine the gossip that the OP might be dealing with and feeling as if she always has to prove herself worthy.
I totally understand that one! I had to leave work one day because one of the guys gf was coming to the job site and he didn't want her to know he was working with a girl because she would think something was going on...pretty ridiculous I'd say!!