By ekm86 - 26/11/2012 16:52 - United States - Portland
ekm86 tells us more.
OP here. For those that question why I had girl baby clothes it is because I have clothes from when I was a baby. They are too big for him but I was bored. And for those that think that babies are entertaining 24/7 then you are obviously not a parent. I am home alone with my child for 7 hours a day and I don't really know very many people or go too many places. My mother-in-law doesn't believe in knocking so she has a habit of just walking in. Also, I intended for this to be a one time silly event between just my child and I perhaps with me telling my husband later. I had no intentions of taking pictures to share on FB or any other social media site. (In fact, my child isn't pictured anywhere online.) Also, if my son "turns out gay" I won't really care because a few of my family members are homosexual. Lastly, I could've let my baby play with his toys but he vastly prefers me entertaining him over his toys.
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Explain to her how that stuff is all socially constructed anyway. Pink used to be considered a boy's color!
You really need to take both words together in "frilly dress." Yes, there have been frilly clothes for both genders through the ages, but the few articles traditionally worn by men that lack any cloth between the legs are really not frilly. That said, I do kinda agree with the whole "social constructs" thing. My brother has previously admitted on national television that he dressed in drag on at least one occasion, so whatever. I can't care about this else I'd make myself too embarrassed to live.
The point is really that men in the past have worn things that we would consider feminine today because the definitions of what men and women are supposed to look like have changed. If being male or female predisposed people to dress in a certain way, we would not have cultural and historical variation like that.
Yep – for a long time, it was traditional for children of both sexes to wear dresses until they were about ten or so and the boys were "breeched", i.e., put into trousers for the first time. The original idea was, I believe, that fairies and/or demons were more likely to come and steal or harm male children than female children, so the parents dressed both sexes alike in order to protect their sons until they were old enough to protect themselves. Then I think it just kinda became traditional. Still, it's interesting stuff.
Cultures constantly define and redefine their concepts of gender-specific clothing, but I think there's at least a small, indirect biological influence on the ways men and women dress. Males tend to be the fancy, showy, colorful members of their species (even in humans, men get the elaborate facial and chest hair, higher muscle definition, etc.) to attract the females. I think women of our species also have an innate attraction to frilly things, and it plays out in our clothing preferences. Guys, on the other hand, tend to be more interested in the plain, beardless, bald-chested thing that's underneath all the pretty shinies. This is all generally speaking, though, and by no means a moral statement about how members of either sex "should" or "shouldn't" dress. Plenty of men like frills and plenty of women find them nauseating.
Well, dressing him in boy's clothes isn't exactly letting him figure it out either. At least she's giving him a sample of both. :) And anyone who thinks blurring gender lines or violating social norms = mental instability is a closed-minded ass. Even if you don't approve of it, how could you say such a thing? To her own daughter-in-law no less?
There's nothing wrong with that. When I was a young child I would dress my younger brother in my old toddler dresses. He looked adorable. Currently he's being trained in mixed martial arts and is disgustingly manly and likes to lord the fact that he's stronger and taller than me over me.
#5, what difference does it make? It won't change who he is, and he probably won't even remember it. Besides, she apparently only did it once. And I don't see how it's weird to see a toddler in "drag". Toddlers are so androgynous that you probably couldn't even tell the difference. I know people mistake my 2-year-old cousin for male just for wearing blue, even when they're girls' clothes...
I don't see a problem at all with mixed-gender dress up. Me and my neighbor would switch clothes all he time, just because we were bored. Hey, we still do it, and we're 14. I never got the fact that best friends could share clothes, but only if they're the same gender. And neither of us are cross-dressers, transgender, or homosexual (not that there's anything wrong with those.) Xavier's girlfriend doesn't mind, she finds it hilarious when me and him will skip into school in each others clothes singing show tunes, just to make a point.
Because your son is just there for your amusement and only that reason right? YDI.
125 - Ummm...I've never met a parent who HASN'T used their baby as a dress-up doll; if that weren't the case, infants clothes would have no "fashion" because babies don't give a sh*t what color it is. Every "cutesy" outfit any baby has ever worn has been for the sake of someone playing dress-up with them. So yeah, definitely nothing wrong with it.
I'm pretty sure a child that young would be entertained by being played with as well. The activity doesn't matter, it's the fact that mama is holding them and paying attention to them that they care about. As long as the child wasn't upset by it, who cares. Y'all need to take care of a 9 month old sometime, after you grow up a little anyways.
It is more acceptable for women and girls to wear masculine clothing than it is for men and boys to wear feminine clothing. You have to wonder why this is. It should be perfectly fine to dress your little boy in a pink dress, he can choose what he wants to wear later in life on his own, but I think it's good to set up this idea of a broad gender fluidity from a young age. Of course OP was probably doing this for a laugh and not really to make a point or set up a different social atmosphere for her son.
Hey Firefly, I do plan on having a kid or two, and if my son wants to wear something pink or frilly I'll let him, and if my daughter wants to wear jeans and t shirts, I'll let her. Then maybe they will grow up to be well adjusted, instead of being shoved into a box and forced to pretend to be something they aren't.
The reason why it is more acceptable for women to wear masculine clothing than for men to wear feminine clothing is because masculinity is seen as superior to femininity. That way, it makes a little more sense that women would try to "upgrade" themselves to seem more masculine, but if a man wore feminine clothing he would be downgrading, and therefore some kind of weirdo.
There is also the issue of not wanting to seem transgendered. If a woman dresses masculinely and goes all out with a tuxedo and bow tie she is still viewed as a woman. And a man can dress femininely to a certain point (v-necks, skinny jeans and scarves are seen as more feminine clothing) but wouldn't dare wear a dress or skirt for fear of people thinking that he wants to be a woman (this is assuming the man is not transgendered of course).
Because that is what society has decided it likes. I enjoy how you point out that men have worn things similar to dresses but cannot point to a time when men actually wore dresses. You can't because societies from many continents during many decades have agreed that men don't do that. Is it right? Don't know. Should you really encourage your future kids to wear dresses if they want to? Sure, if that's how you wanna do things. I just ask that when your son goes looking for a job that you don't bitch about the companies that are seeking people who are at peace with societal norms and thus won't hire him. We promise not force our pant-wearing ways on him if you agree that we shouldn't have to endure his man-legs in a dress.
Morden, I have mentioned times when males wore dresses. Baby boys used to wear dresses all the time and nobody thought it was odd. Garments may not always be called dresses because they have a name of their own. Robes and gowns have been worn by men in various times, and they are pretty much the same thing as a dress. Kilts are not called skirts because they already have a name, but they are still cloth that goes around your lower body that does go between a person's legs, so they are similar things. Also, if you agree not to force pants wearing on a man as long as he doesn't enforce his dress wearing on you, what is he supposed to wear?
" I enjoy how you point out that men have worn things similar to dresses but cannot point to a time when men actually wore dresses. " *coughJesusandRomansandGreeksandEgyptiansandMedievalfarmersandScotsandArabians(even nowadays)cough* Maybe you should rethink your opinion, Morden, 'cause I'm getting pretty sick over here.
Yeah Djee, you should really look into getting a new gas mask. That one is clearly not working well for you. Also, I find it weird that there seems to be a gender split on this issue. I haven't seen very many men who are willing to look at the facts and admit that historically, at least, this isn't that weird.