By whyme_ss - 20/07/2009 20:05 - United States
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Here it is, a scientific study on Prayer. Results: "1) “Intercessory prayer had no effect on recovery from surgery without complications.” 2) “Patients who knew they were receiving intercessory prayer fared worse.” I'm not going to get into a lot of detail, but essentially they had three groups of patients in a hospital who need the same surgery: ones who weren't getting prayed for, ones who were getting prayed for and knew it, ones that were getting prayed for, but didn't know either way. The ones that knew they were getting prayed for did the worse than the other two, who fared EXACTLY the same. Prayer does nothing people. More info: http://web.med.harvard.edu/sites/RELEASES/html/3_31STEP.html BTW, this thing was double blind and very very well funded, and not done with the intention of disproving prayer, quite the opposite actually.
Actually, that logic is flawed. Just because one does not receive what they prayed for or get a "yes" answer to their prayer does not mean that prayer "doesn't work". Ultimately God decides what happens and can decide "yes", "no", or "not right now". Therefore, just because one doesn't get the answer that they hoped for does not mean prayer is ineffective. God does not work like a genie. I have seen many people get what they asked for as well as not getting what they asked for, and I am sure many people will say that they know people who were healed while people were praying for them. But hey. Yeah, I am a Christian, doesn't mean I'm shovin God down anyone's throats. I just thought I would clarify what prayer is actually. That is actually pretty funny OP!
@99 So, essentially, you agree prayers are useless. I'm glad we agree on that. If your invisible man in the sky ultimately decides what happens, and he has this grand plan for the human race, you think he'd give a fuck about your prayers? Why should he mess up his grand plan for you little people's wishes? @OP, YDI for being overly religious.
I agree with tubasaurus too Anything who ACTUALLY thinks prayers are effective haven't really thought it through. Let's assume you believe in God. What makes you think he's going to suddenly up and change things just because you put your palms flat against each other and spouted some requests? I'll accept prayers as being a method of communicating with God, but he isn't some kind of genie @OP: Ok, whatever... I'm surprised you didn't know that. We may do a lot of things unintentionally, but yelling the Lord's Prayer isn' usually one of them. @146: Don't reply to the first comment for visibility. That's not what it's there for. And the comments section of every FML always turns into a debate if possible
Religion is merely a method of gaining a false sense of hope and security. It can make certain people happier in life. People like to believe religion is true, so let them. We all know religion is false, but for those who like or need a little more faith in life, they use religion. Leave them be.
Really? You bother to post your atheistic views why? Are you trying to save the world from their horribly ignorant and mistaken ideas? Bring them to reality? What is wrong with you that you choose to post this here? Just STFU about religion. Either laugh at the FML or go away, don't make this a religious argument HERE of all places. Take your stupid views somewhere else.
All I did was simply pass on the results of a scientific study. I'm not putting my "atheistic views" into this, I just summarized the study. And don't act like some superior douche who just doesn't want anyone to debate religion and then call my views "stupid" in the same post. It's like you're ASKING to drag this out. and to 99 - Yes, the prayers failed. If i say "Dear God, please let Jim W.'s surgery go successfully without complications" two things can happen. One, Jim's surgery goes fine; or two, it doesn't. If the latter, then the prayer had no effect. They were trying to quantify whether the prayer actually did what it was supposed to, and it didn't. It's bad logic to say "Oh, well, the surgery went very poorly, but later next month he was wheeling himself in his wheelchair because the doctors screwed up so bad, and suddenly a car was going to hit him, but it magically swerved just in time! The prayer DID work, God just interpreted it however he wanted to." That's not what the prayer was about! In this study, the prayers were HIGHLY specific and uniform, not just "Dear God, please bless Jim".
#170--now, assuming heaven and God exist, and that God created everyone and everything (bare with me), in heaven, there is no time. And heaven is where God is, so he is able to see every moment of existence (assuming there is a beginning and an end caused by him, keep baring...), and he gave humans free will. That means we can do what we want, but wait, how can God make a plan if we get to choose what happens? Because he KNOWS what happens, he knows what prayers we will say, because he can see every moment of every person's life. That's how he shapes his plan. So right there, I'm answering Rosalind's question about why would God care about us, if it's 'his plan'? And to respond to #127-Duckasauras with doubt about the 'yes', 'no', and 'wait' answers. What you said about the 'wait', I can't really say anything that will win me an argument in God's defense, that will just remain a part of the never ending debate about coincidence vs. God's choice. But as far as the 'no' answer goes... of course you can get a 'no' not just a 'wait' if you don't die. For example... if someone prayed that their parents let them go to a concert... and then their parents didn't let them go. Then the next day on the news, they hear about a mass murder that happened at that same concert. (I've never been to a concert, so I don't know about security, probably there are no chances of someone getting in with a gun, but don't give me any grief about it...). First of all, that's an example of a 'no' that one can get as an answer to a prayer... and second, that's an example of a possibility WHY God would say no to a prayer... to keep the person alive in this case. Once again that turns into the debate of coincidence vs. God's choice, which truly can't be won by either side.
And chveya, God specifically tells us NOT to test him. So what do you think is going to happen? He's not going to give up on his word. If a parent tells their child, "don't watch TV," if the kid decides to watch TV anyway, and the parent finds out, the result isn't just going to be nothing happening, as if he/she had never told his/her kid. It's essentially the same here. God tells us not to test him, and if we do (ie through that study), the result isn't going to be what would theoretically happen, that the ones prayed for stay healthy, and the one not prayed for died. If he had never told us NOT to test him, then yeah the results probably would have been different. But people did something that God specifically told them not to do. Therefore something different has to happen.
If this religion had been masterminded by just one manipulative genius, I would be in awe. This is ridiculous. You guys have some way of dodging EVERYTHING that shines doubt on your religion. God doesn't like being tested? Well that's awfully convenient! Look, would it really be a GOOD thing for God (Mr. Omnibenevolent) to care more about his ego and 'not being tested' than he does about the lives of thousands of people this test was being performed on? Is that what you think is right, and moral? To me, this study does a damn good job of suggesting prayer is entirely ineffective, whether you think God is real or not. However, the burden of proof is NOT on us unbelievers, it is on you, because you are the ones making the claim. If you want to claim prayer works, than YOU find some way of proving it.
@bbobe900000 This was a double blind study! The people that we're praying for the better of their loved ones didn't know that they were part of a study. They were not the ones that we're "testing" God. So why would they have to suffer for it? Seems that God is unfair!?! Or is this another study that gets closer to proving there is none? Answer for yourself.
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YDI for being religious.
The Lord's Prayer, (from the King James Bible): Our Father who art in Heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
That's quite a new take on just screaming, "OH MY GOD OH MY GOD!"
hahahah. what the heckkk. how did you not notice that?