By DrugsRX - 17/10/2012 22:58 - United States - Winder
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When I was little my parents decided to get me a flu shot and I became the sickest I have ever been. Instead of building my resistance, I became ill. Maybe she was the same way and didn't want to risk the kid getting sick when trying to do the child a favor. You have to know her side as well. It may not be a simple as her wanting to deny her child of medical care.
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Getting exposed to colds and viruses earlier in life will develop a stronger immune system and are less likely to become sick in later years. Vaccines can also lead to autoimmune diseases, I personally know several people who've experienced this. Vaccines cause the development of autoantibodies significantly associated with clots within the heart, foetal loss and neurological conditions, can even genetic damage. Please be thorough when informing yourself about your health. Not everything the pharmaceutical industry is trying to sell us is good for us. I've only ever received one vaccination my whole life and am perfectly healthy.
Vaccines aren't just for the person getting them... Some people cannot receive vaccines, but if everyone around them is vaccinated then they are much less likely to get sick. It's called herd immunity. Yes, a small percentage of people have issues, but overall less people die/become disable when vaccinated than if they were not vaccinated.
@111 - Getting exposed to the flu can be fatal for a young child. Vaccines do not cause autoimmune disease. These people you know already had an autoimmune disease, and you can argue that a vaccine triggered it, but there's debate as to whether or not vaccines can trigger autoimmune diseases. Autoantibodies are, again, caused by autoimmune diseases. They have nothing at all to do with vaccines. Please be thorough when attempting to inform everyone else about their health, because the overwhelming majority of DOCTORS disagree with you. Also, you may be healthy, but how many little kids have you infected with measles?
On the most recent commercial even the people who sell it say in the quickly spoken disclaimer say "If you have ever had an influenza vaccine you should not get one. I will never get one. People can take their health in their own hands; I'm not risking mine to keep others from getting sick. If you get sick stay home. (whether your boss is a dick or not) That part was more personal experience guy mad me work with the swine flu for two weeks...
159 you might be a nurse but are you specialist in the field? Chances are you're there when they get a vaccine and not after testing the long term side effects. Not exactly an authority compared to doctors that have specifically studied patients. 184 &135 - I got everything I said from SEVERAL academic articles and studies conducted at multiple different universities ... There's enough evidence supporting the correlation to be concerned.Also not talking about autism. 135 -Measles can only be spread by an infected person. If you are infected you will get symptoms. I haven't had it, so none. The body itself has antibodies different to the vaccine induced antibodies. I was saying what a study found out about vaccine induced antibodies when comparing the two. Why would you take the risk of triggering it anyway?
26-Because she is still the child's mother, and could know some conditions or allergies that you don't. This is cheesy, but you and the other parent split, NOT the child and the other parent. If you did get divorced legally then it's somewhere in the papers that all medicines and important events must be discussed with the other parent.
195- So your exact argument is, "I once read a few bits of unsourced reference material so I now know better than the DOCTORS, RESEARCHERS, and INTERNATIONAL HEALTH AGENCIES that tell me I'm nothing short of a brainless tit for not getting vaccinated." Smallpox, Polio, and Measles. I only have to list one reason why your argument is invalid, but I'll list three. There are several billion people that, given the choice, would have gladly taken a vaccine over a painful pox-ridden death. Even if your absolute, debunked crap argument was true, I'd sure as hell take a small chance of side effects over the resurgence of every terrifying disease humanity has beaten. If you still can't see where you're an idiot, read Cracked.
195- I apologize for the double post, but I'm still rambling. I just realized your brain is being eaten by common logical fallacies. When a medical article is written and subsequently refuted by the vast majority of professionals in that field, it has failed peer review and is not valid. That is exactly what has happened with every "paper" you've read, but you choose to believe it because its scarier and makes you feel smart. Just had to point that out.
I do not believe flu shots are necessary for anyone who does not have a compromised immune system, but there is NO excuse to avoid being vaccinated for things like smallpox. The reason it is no longer a major cause of death in developed countries is because most people are now given the smallpox vaccination. Seriously, we are vaccinated for a reason. I avoided my meningitis shot when I was a kid and I ended up almost dying of spinal meningitis. If I could go back and force little Murph to suck it up and take the damn shot, I would in a heartbeat.
217- Don't use hostility and personal attacks to assert your points. Also dont assume. Since when are academic articles allowed to contain unsourced references? The articles referenced multiple DOCTORS and RESEARCHERS. And who did you think the medical studies/experiments were conducted by exactly? That's right it would have to be someone with medical expertise and equipment. I already mentioned this was based on doctors that have studied patients in the last comment itself. Have you bothered to inform yourself of what your talking about? Smallpox has been extinct for over 30 years.. Where as polio symptoms are only serious in .1 % out of the very rare few who contract it... And guess what that can be avoided by washing your hands and not drinking contaminated water. The measles vaccine is a “live virus’ so it contains the virus in its whole and living form, although in a minuscule dose. Therefore, it's not really a surprise that there have been cases of people contracting measles from the measles vaccination. Other side effect can include inflammation of the brain, bleeding disorders, deafness, seizures. These aren't common but very much a real possibility. So don't throw personal attacks just for expressing caution.. I just wanted to bring up what risks have been associated with vaccines, unlike you who are trying to force your option on the ultimate decision. It's every individuals' job to assess relative risks.
229, you do realize that smallpox is extinct BECAUSE OF THE SMALLPOX VACCINE, right? A couple decades ago, measles was right on the brink of getting completely eliminated too, but then the anti-vaccine morons stopped vaccinating their kids against it and measles epidemics started up again.
the problem with that is vulnerable people are also more vulnerable to dangerous side-effects from the vaccine itself. There are a number of people who should NOT recieve vaccines but most doctors do not take the time to screen people to make sure they are fit to recieve them.
Numbers from the CDC and VAERS: DISEASE Measles Pneumonia: 6 in 100 Encephalitis: 1 in 1,000 Death: 2 in 1,000 Rubella Congenital Rubella Syndrome: 1 in 4 (if woman becomes infected early in pregnancy) VACCINES MMR Encephalitis or severe allergic reaction: 1 in 1,000,000 Diphtheria, Tetanus, and Pertussis vs. DTap Vaccine DISEASE Diphtheria Death: 1 in 20 Tetanus Death: 2 in 10 Pertussis Pneumonia: 1 in 8 Encephalitis: 1 in 20 Death: 1 in 1,500 VACCINES DTaP Continuous crying, then full recovery: 1 in 1000 Convulsions or shock, then full recovery: 1 in 14,000 Acute encephalopathy: 0-10.5 in 1,000,000 Death: None Proven Anyone who doesn't get their children vaccinated is a brainless tit and the entire world health community backs me up. Deal with it.
You know what's worse then an autoimmune disease? Polio or small pox. Get your vaccinations. Don't be an idiot. It's like saying that seatbelts could trap you in your car if they malfunction, so I'm not going to wear one. And yea sure you've never had a vaccination and your still healthy. How about after you take a trip to Africa. Where everyone hasn't had the luxury of a vaccination.
#195, I am a doctor, and you are full of misinformation. There is no evidence that vaccines cause autoimmune disorders. Every medical treatment has some risks and benefits. With vaccines, though, the risks are minimal and the benefit is huge. Some vaccines are less safe for people with certain allergies and medical conditions, in which case they are not given. Otherwise, there is no excuse not to be vaccinated, especially if you're otherwise healthy. You're currently benefiting from herd immunity, but that only works if everyone around you ignores your anti-immunization spiel. Ideally the only ones who would need to be covered by the herd are those with medical conditions that prevent complete vaccination and non-responders, but of course we can't hold a gun to your head and force you to get vaccinated. However, it's important for you to know that you're putting you and everyone around you at risk for the sake of some very misguided claims. Personally, I think it's a bit selfish, but to each his own. Since you've chided the nurse for not being a "specialist," what exactly is YOUR medical background?
I don't understand why your wife is angry for that. Seems like an overreaction. Let her know she's making you feel bad.
At least concede that babies and young children should not be vaccinated. Parents are so careful about what they feed their babies when they first begin eating at around 6 months old or so. Yet, in the name of "protecting" them we inject directly into their bloodstreams ingredients such as mercury (neurotoxin), formaldehyde (carcinogenic), human albumin (from pooled human plasma), egg albumin (allergy risk), phenoxyethanol (The FDA warns "can cause shut down of the central nervous system (CNS), vomiting and contact dermatitis" in cosmetics ... and this in not talking about injecting directly into the bloodstream), aluminum phosphate, MSG, bovine cow serum, and so on.
You realise, all of the chemicals found inside vaccines are actually FDA approved to be administered as vaccines to prevent people from dying of many different sicknesses. There have been no reported ailments or deaths recorded being caused by vaccines since between the 60s and 80s. They are not harmful, in any way, and you are being paranoid about chemical poisoning not even considering the fact that not using vaccines will cause people to be killed from illness.
Bitches be crazy. Seriously. It drives me nuts when parents consider all vaccines to be harmful. There's a reason they need vaccinations to go to school.
Actually, some of the vaccines thats being given are not valid anymore, they're outdated or not useful anymore, but schools don't inform you about this. (Least where I live, not sure about US) Or if it is same vaccine thats around here, where many many kids have gotten very ill and developed narkolephsy (however it's spelt) I can see her point. Even read some doctors warn about it. So yeah, might be what goes through op's wife's mind?
151- You're the exception, not the rule. There's a reason smallpox, polio, and a couple dozen other diseases no longer kill and maim millions in developed countries annually. Anyone who does not get their children immunized should be in prison. Due to vaccines, we no longer have a genetically transferred resistance to a lot of terrible diseases. How many idiot parents does it take until an outbreak of a previously dead disease cripples a country?
Whatever. You're all wrong. The government is doing experiments on us through vaccinations. So they aren't safe! Of course low income areas that are mostly on medicade get the brunt of Government vaccines, 'cause they can be tracked easier when they get their medical care. So the Government can see how it went! Weren't any of you alive in the 90's? Sheesh.
#110 I wasn't talking about the flu vaccine being outdated. Sorry, re reading my comment I see II wasn't clear, I was talking about a handful of different kids vaccines. The flu vaccine that came out first in Europe however, was proven to cause narcolepsy in children. Some of the other vaccines used in scandinavia are well outdated and are no longer relevant for the modern society, but are still in use. So I can see why some people feel iffy about it. Not saying I support it, just saying I can see her point. Still think OP and his wife could sit down and talk things through. Screaming never helps any argument.
80's kid, lots of people go through life without vaccines and never have any ill effects. Lots of people ride their bikes without helmets everyday and most of them don't get injured. What about the ones that don't though? Polio is still a thing and at worst, it kills. It can also disable people; my stepson's grandmother got it when she was a little girl and was wheelchair bound from then til the day she died. Measles can be fatal and I have a friend who's parents didn't believe in vaccinations so he got the measles, he's sterile and can never have biological children. You were lucky, do you want to bank on your kids being lucky too? I don't, some mostly imaginary risks from vaccines are worth it to make sure my kids don't die of some archaic disease or cervical cancer, whatever.
151- I've had my fair share of vaccinations and I'm also perfectly healthy. You NEED shots sometimes though. How do you think they got rid of small pox completely? Vaccines. What's the main goal during a zombie apocalypse after staying alive? Vaccines. They're not bad, just be aware and don't take them blindly.
You were doing your job as a parent OP. Sorry your wife doesn't see it that way. Some people just have an irrational fear of vaccines.
As a mother with an autistic child, fear of vaccines is not "irrational" I'm not saying that I necessarily believe they are the issue but I do believe that until they can definitively say without prejudice that they are not the cause we have opted to discontinue vaccinating our son. And he is actually the only one that never gets the stomach flu or cold in our house.
68- actually it has not been definitively proven. And until you have a child with autism you will not understand why people decide to not get vaccinations. For me, it's the chance that if I do decide to now vaccinate my son we may lose all progress he has made in the 6 years since his diagnosis. I for one am not willing to put my sons fate in the collective "they"s hand because every time you turn around "they" have changed their minds on what is actually good for us or harmful for us.
71- thanks :) I don't know that I do either but playing Russian roulette with my sons development scares the bejesus outta me! It was a difficult decision to make and I don't know and will probably ever really know if it was the right one. You can only ever do what you think is best and pray you're right most of the time :) and I agree. Autistic kids are awesome. They make us take a minute to slow down and look at our world from another perspective.
Gremlinswife - While I understand your plight, there has never been any link between autism and any vaccine. There was one study which turned out to be a complete fraud. Nothing else has ever shown a link. Ever. Your reasoning, while laudable, is flawed. Just because something has never been disproven doesn't prove anything.
Gremlinswife, if Autism is linked to vaccines, explain how non vaccinated siblings of Autistic children have a higher chance of having it? My middle nephew has Autism, my younger nephew has a slight form and my niece has what is known as Mutism- which is a developmental version. Vaccinated or not- it's just a roll of the genetic dice.
I don't believe any one thing causes autism (vaccinations) I do believe people are genetically predispositioned to to getting it but that there may be environmental triggers that cause it to manifest itself in some people and not others. My other children have had all of their vaccinations and are developmentally typical.
84- all forms of autism are a developmental disability. Not just some of them. And I'm not sure what mutism is? My son has non verbal autism perhaps that's what you're talking about. Autism is a spectrum of developmental delays which means you can have one person seemingly near typical while at the other end have someone with severe impairments and the inability to speak.
I totally agree it is an irrational fear of vaccines. I have a very rational fear of people not getting vaccinated. I have an infant who is not old enough to get all of her vaccines yet and a son with a very serious health condition. If you get one of these diseases you may survive it, but if you pass it on to someone they may not. We should all think about how our choices can effect other people.
Autism is not caused from vaccines nothing causes autism your child was born with it. It doesn't usually show up until the child is about 3 some are later. Also people seem to forget all the chemicals in foods now days, parents just shove whatever in their kids mouths but as soon as they get sick it's all the vaccines fault.
Ugh. I hate Jenny McCarthy for spreading the vaccinations=autism myth. As far as I'm concerned, there should be some sort of law against spreading such potentially-dangerous information as 'facts'. And besides... 1. Autism is a developmental disorder, not just something you 'catch' at a certain age. The only reason it has been linked to vaccinations is because children have most of their vaccinations around the age of 1-3, which is when most autistic behavior starts becoming evident in a child. It's no different than saying "vaccinations gave my child the ability to talk". No, that was going to happen anyway. Vaccinations had nothing to do with it. 2. Why is autism considered the worst thing that could happen to a child? Sure, it's a developmental anomaly. But even if vaccinations WERE the cause of autism, I'd rather risk my child developing autism than risk them dying of something that can be vaccinated for (e.g. the whooping cough, polio, tetanus, etc). 3. Not vaccinating your child is not only dangerous to your own child, but also those around them. An epidemic (I suppose you'd call it) of tuberculosis happened in my town when I was younger, and after an investigation it was later found out that most of the people (primarily young children and elderly) who developed it were either non-vaccinated or regularly hung out with someone who wasn't vaccinated. FFS we're living in the 21st Century and there are still people getting things like TB and polio because there are idiot parents who think "oh well. There's no need to vaccinate my kids. Who gets things like polio in this day and age?" THE ONLY REASON PEOPLE DON'T GET THESE DISEASES ANY MORE IS BECAUSE OF VACCINATIONS!! 4. And to all the people saying they have gotten sick after vaccinations, yes, it DOES happen. That's why you generally get a booklet or sheet explaining the vaccination, what it does, and the side-effects you may get from it. But doesn't the means justify the ends? Like I said, I'd rather give my child a vaccination and have them be sick for a week or so, as opposed to giving them NO vaccinations and have them develop a potentially life-threatening illness.
ok people, pleasee inform yourselves from both sides of the story before you go on about vaccines and how they are completely harmless. there are so many cases where kids have had serious side effects after getting vaccines. the only reason why there are no "actual studies" showing that vaccines can be danerous for people is because the pharma-industry is controlling the information and does not want to stop making huge amounts of money that vaccines generate completely understand OP's wife, I would be freaking out too. both parental consensus should be necessary when making these decisions
176- vaccinations are given much earlier than one year of age. And your ignorant comment on rather having your child develop autism than not vaccinating shows you have absolutely no idea what autism is. My son will never be able to live on his own. He does not speak and his cognitive level will always be around 4 years of age. Unless you are living with autism in the forefront of your very day life you simply cannot comprehend how difficult it is. I don't judge people for deciding to vaccinate their children and I expect the same in return for my choice to not vaccinate. I DID NOT get my info from Jenny McCarthy. I actually think she has done more harm than good on the autism front.
215- I'm sorry? Did I read that correctly? You'd rather your child die than have a child with autism? I'm afraid 176 is correct. The belief that a vaccine can trigger autism is not only detrimental to our collective intelligence and knowledge in the ever growing field of medicine and science, it is outright dangerous to society as a whole. So no, I am very sorry, but I cannot respect your ludicrous view in any way, shape, or form.
It's interesting that you note all the chemicals in the food that parents shove in their children's mouths, yet you don't seem very concerned about the ones that are injected directly into their bloodstreams. Bovine cow serum, Sorbitol, Sodium chloride, Egg protein, Thimerosal, Human albumin, Formaldehyde, Phenoxyethano, Aluminum phosphate, MSG, just to name a few.
" vaccinations are given much earlier than one year of age. And your ignorant comment on rather having your child develop autism than not vaccinating shows you have absolutely no idea what autism is." Actually I DO know what autism is. Autism runs in my family. My brother has autism, my two uncles have autism, and my grandfather has autism. My brother and grandfather are able to function at a very low level, but my uncles have to live at home with my grandparents. They'll likely never marry, never have any friends, never be able to do something as simple as visit the shops, or answer the phone, or have a normal conversation, or live a normal life. But you know something? I'd rather them be the way they are than to DIE of something that can be prevented. I love my family and would never wish them to be any different for my own selfish reasons. And I'm sure they'd agree. They might get frustrated because of their disorder, they might sometimes wish they could have a normal life. But it's better to be autistic than to be DEAD. How is that so hard to understand?? So fuck you for calling me ignorant. And fuck you for having an unvaccinated child who runs the risk of harming the children around him with any potential illnesses he might be carrying.
279- really not showing much more intelligence by swearing at me. I never stated that I'd rather my son be dead. Don't put words in my mouth. I love my son as much as my typical children and delight in all of his achievements. Im proud of him all the time. I advocate on a daily basis and i don't let anyone treat him like he's less than anyone else. My comment was meant to highlight that day to day living with someone on the low functioning end of the spectrum is very very difficult. My son will also never live alone or carry on a conversation or get married. You go through nearly the same mourning process after an autism diagnosis as a death. No not the same I know but you are mourning the loss of what your child's life might have been. Something you should apparently understand as those are shoes you have walked in. My son did received two sets of vaccinations before we stopped vaccinating him. He's not a risk to anyone so you don't have to lose any sleep over that. Im not sure what your thinking is there. Vaccinations start as early as 3 months of age and usually kids are on their third round by 12 months old. Maybe The US it is different I have no idea. I think the bottom line is us parents pelf severely autistic children do what we think is best so our kids can achieve their fullest potential.
It sounds like you should be berating her for endangering your child's life...
They have their reasons you know. Yes, most people would say the pros of having a vaccine by far outweigh the risks of having one but it's not like they just decided to go against vaccines for no reason whatsoever and they don't think it's a massive conspiracy. And they're (mostly) only acting questionably because they're worrying about their child, not because they like being difficult. Just saying.
Maybe she is one of those people who think mmr vaccines give people autism?
Well people who would think everything you claimed and would decide to not vaccinate because because their child MIGHT develop autism are selfish in my opinion. An AUTISTIC child can be happy and healthy. A UN VACCINATED child could possibly die from such diseases. I would say even with a risk I'd choose to vaccinate and have a happy healthy child and say fuck the labels.
There's a lot of people who think that thanks to a total quack who ended up having to retract his report that the MMR vaccine is linked to autism and lost his license to practice medicine. That same study was responsible for a resurgence of diseases like the measles and the mumps, which were almost entirely eliminated, because a pack of paranoid parents shat themselves collectively and refused to vaccinate their children out of fear that they would become autistic. This begs the question: Would you rather your child be autistic or dead?