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By  celestialphoenix  |  8

Your colleague is technically right, despite having poor sources of information. The 'pay gap' is the result of the average annual pay of men compared to women, without taking into considering other factors such as hours worked, shift time worked [antisocial hours], training/qualifications, experience in field, attitude/dedication, field of work ect... --Essentially once you take account of the other factors which effect pay, the gender gap drops to zero. Or if you look a the reverse analysis- if the pay gap was true, why aren't companies saving a tonne on their labour budgets by hiring women instead of men?

By  iamnuff  |  5

You were given poor evidence and little explanation, This is a shame, and a problem, but the core idea isn't wrong. The pay-gap was debunked. The 75% of a mans earnings thing is a result of overall income as-divided-by-gender not accounting for what percentage of each gender takes the high-risk high-paying jobs. For example, construction is mostly male, teaching is mostly female. Construction pays more than teaching. Ergo, men earn more than women. Likewise, childcare, care of sick and elderly people and other sympathy/empathy based jobs (which are heavily dominated by women) tend to pay low to medium wages. Tradework like gasfitting and electrical work tend to be dominated by men, and pay higher. The idea toted by prominent feminists that some evil-eyed CEO is deliberately and maliciously paying his female office-workers less than his male office-workers for performing the same job, is both outdated and absurd. Such a person would be opening themselves to potentially thousands of lawsuits, easily bankrupting himself and his entire company. It's doesn't happen. The "pay gap" as shown to you by feminism is the manipulation of statistics to forward a political agenda. But don't take my word for it. Google it. The facts aren't hard to find if you look for them yourself.

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By  celestialphoenix  |  8

Your colleague is technically right, despite having poor sources of information. The 'pay gap' is the result of the average annual pay of men compared to women, without taking into considering other factors such as hours worked, shift time worked [antisocial hours], training/qualifications, experience in field, attitude/dedication, field of work ect... --Essentially once you take account of the other factors which effect pay, the gender gap drops to zero. Or if you look a the reverse analysis- if the pay gap was true, why aren't companies saving a tonne on their labour budgets by hiring women instead of men?

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  karmicqueene  |  13

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  sadistmonkey  |  19

"It's illegal, therefore it doesn't exist". Great argument. I'm sure no one has ever broken the law before. The thing about the gender pay gap is that while the statistics support the notion that it exists as mentioned by David Strange, it's often impossible to prove on an individual case-by-case basis. First of all, people tend not to tell each other how much they make, and also, just because you as an individual are paid less than your coworker (assuming that you'd be able to find out this information in the first place) doesn't necessarily mean beyond a shadow of a doubt that you would be able to prove that that individual case is the result of discrimination (even if it is). But it would be ridiculous to conclude that this discrimination doesn't happen on a large scale basis throughout society, given the statistics. In many cases, the pay difference is the result of subconscious biases that those who determine the pay of a worker might not even be aware of themselves, in which case malicious intent doesn't apply. However, the lack of malicious intent DOES NOT mean a lack of harm.

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  Excalibur1  |  10

Nowhere in any peer reviewed study does it say that the pay gap is significant when you look at how they got there, and yes islamic countries are extremely sexist, but I don't see what that has to do with first world countries, and schools for boys exist too. If a person of any race, gender, or religion wants more all they have to do is try and they will get similar results, on average in similar starting situations, as a person of any other group of people.

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Not so sure that's true. Considering that many companies have specific policies against releasing individual employees salaries for comparison. So you're right in that there isn't a lot of data, but that doesn't mean there hasn't been specific occasions in which such information did come out, such as in the case of lily ledbetter(I think that's how you spell her last name) I will admit that jobs in which one isn't paid a salary, but rather is payed based on the amount they work, aren't quite as prone to pay discrimination. (Which isn't exclusive or the same between races either)

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  genYnot  |  18

U have been the female paid less for doing more work. I was training the trainee and he was earning $3 an hour more than me, for the same job title. So yes, the wage gap can and does still exist.

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  mroy885  |  0

I honestly do not know how you still believe there is a wage gap after learning the facts. If you wanna talk about laws how about the law created in 1963 that made gender based pay illegal. If you the wage gap actually exists in a company then GO SUE THEM. And what does feminisation of the workplace have to do with it? Al it is is a trend where people try to hire more women? This has nothing to do with the wage gap and could actually be perceived as sexist ( I do not really care) because they are hiring more women than men simply because of sex. I have no idea about sexism in the career process because I am to young to start working at jobs that require more complex hiring processes (Which I know will probably be used against me to say "Oh you're to young to comment on this type of stuff") but I can say with utmost certainty that some of the smartest people I know and who get the highest grades are women so I don't understand how there is "Institutionalized sexism" them. And if there is sexism against anyone in schools it is against guys. Things that girls tend to like are nurtured much more from a young school age and things like action filled stories and books are usually discouraged instead of being nurtured and turned into a love for reading or a better imagination. Instead boys are given books that they hate which turns into a hatred for reading which will bring down all their subjects eventually.

By  iamnuff  |  5

You were given poor evidence and little explanation, This is a shame, and a problem, but the core idea isn't wrong. The pay-gap was debunked. The 75% of a mans earnings thing is a result of overall income as-divided-by-gender not accounting for what percentage of each gender takes the high-risk high-paying jobs. For example, construction is mostly male, teaching is mostly female. Construction pays more than teaching. Ergo, men earn more than women. Likewise, childcare, care of sick and elderly people and other sympathy/empathy based jobs (which are heavily dominated by women) tend to pay low to medium wages. Tradework like gasfitting and electrical work tend to be dominated by men, and pay higher. The idea toted by prominent feminists that some evil-eyed CEO is deliberately and maliciously paying his female office-workers less than his male office-workers for performing the same job, is both outdated and absurd. Such a person would be opening themselves to potentially thousands of lawsuits, easily bankrupting himself and his entire company. It's doesn't happen. The "pay gap" as shown to you by feminism is the manipulation of statistics to forward a political agenda. But don't take my word for it. Google it. The facts aren't hard to find if you look for them yourself.

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  coolmike699  |  23

Aren't you explaining exactly why a pay gap exists, though? A little Googling (as you suggested) tells me that it might not be nearly as simple as that '75%' stat implies, and it might not be perpetrated by 'an evil-eyed CEO', but there's still a gap in the pay that men and women receive. You exemplified why yourself, when you described 'childcare and care of sick and elderly people' as 'sympathy/empathy based jobs'. Those jobs aren't based on any emotion, they're based on systems just like construction is. They're just as necessary but still pay less. Also, men in those fields earn more than women in those fields, and they're more likely to be promoted as well. The pay gap has not been "debunked". It's simply more nuanced than one statistic could explain. But it exists, and it is gender based.

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  pooniels  |  5

The wage gap thing claims that women are paid less for the same work because they are women, that HAS been debunked. An >earnings< gap does exist, but is not a bad thing (as men on average opt to spend more time on harder, more dangerous work) and can be entirely explained as a direct result of women's choices, not "institutional sexism". The only way to "fix" the gap is to take away choice and discriminate with preferential treatment and exclusive free money for 1 sex (which already happens...) or force people to do things they're not interested in, taking a big dump on freedom of opportunity and individuality just to get pretty 50-50 equality of outcome stats. "men in those fields earn more than women in those fields, and they're more likely to be promoted as well" Unless you can prove otherwise, this is also due to women choose to work less fulltime, fewer hours, more time off, negotiate for raises less, different/lower positions etc. It's no wonder people get annoyed as many feminists refuse to accept this, and the discriminatory treatment used against this "wage gap" is pushed a lot in pointless campaigns like manspreading, ban bossy, pushing women into STEM even if they are already the majority and overrepresented in education in general, listen-and-believe rape accusations despite the countless false ones, stopping violence against >women<, making it illegal for >men< to "catcall" AKA interact with strangers that are >women<, stopping genital mutilation of >women<... How surprising for a movement called feminism that by definition fights for more rights for women, it's almost like they don't care about men when about half of them claim feminism isn't for men...

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True feminism isn't about just women. It's also about men. Men can show emotions. Men can be raped. Men don't have to be "macho." Men don't have to be the main breadwinners in a family.

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  AkameGaKill  |  10

hilarious

By  sadistmonkey  |  19

To those saying the gender pay gap isn't real, there are studies that control for various factors including occupation, and they still conclude that the pay gap is real. Even women who choose higher paying positions still earn less than men for the same position. While the wage gap may be more for women who have children, women who don't have children are still paid less than men. As for other issues such as "attitude" or "dedication", I'd like to see evidence that women are any different than men in those regards. It may not be as simple a matter as saying "women on average make this much, men on average make this much" but even after controlling for everything, women still make less money in general.

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  iamnuff  |  5

>Even women who choose higher paying positions still earn less than men for the same position. So why don't those women sue and walk away with millions in sexist discrimination claims? It aint real. People who work in the same position with the same qualifications get the same salary.

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  pooniels  |  5

As far as I've seen every single one of those studies still failed to take other known factors into account. Unless you can prove otherwise, it is still due to women's choice to work less fulltime, fewer hours, more time off, negotiate for raises less, different/lower positions etc and not due to "sexism because they are women". Want to fix this? Get more women to work more in the many hard, dangerous, expensively educated, inflexible, life-long jobs that are currently made up almost entirely of men. Or is it suddenly no longer necessary to have 50-50 representation when it's NOT about cushy, influential, well-paying jobs?

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  CSSDimian  |  3

Yeah, currently on my 4th job in medical research. I 100% guarantee you women and men make the same amount in this field, and anecdotal evidence from associates at similar companies lead me to believe the same is true no matter where you look.

By  Viewerv  |  2

Look, the gender pay gap isn't just about more women are teachers and there are very few on oil rigs. Because there are even disparities within professions and companies. Two engineers with the same qualifications, experience and working for the same company often have wage disparity. But it's not as simple as companies being evil. Women tend to negotiate less and undervalue their worth. So HR gets away with low balling them. Also, the reason why women don't dominate even if they are cheaper is because many hiring managers also undervalue women. Their qualifications and experience is given less weight then those of men. There is also the intangible of, women get pregnant and are mothers. HR managers do still discriminate against young women for this reason. It's a complex issue that's not as simple as the ol' "women and non-whites need not apply" an actual thing they could put on job ads.

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  pettyjohn1995  |  12

To add to this, women also work fewer hours of overtime (on average), take part time second jobs rather than extending hours at a first, pass up promotions in favor of time at home, or take extended leave/years off from careers. The end result is that a "full time" male and female employee of the same age even in the same profession have different experience. A man who works more hours, takes promotions, and has not taken an extended leave will likely earn significantly more than a woman who does not work overtime, does not take promotions, and has taken an extended leave from work. The US bureau of labor statistics cites all of these as causes of the gap in wages that is observed by dividing total salary of by number of workers of (gender) in (field). After controlling for these, their most recent report left approximately 2 cents of "gap"

By  Andrew Cable  |  5

Equal Pay act of 1963. enough said but to elaborate, the "pay gap" looks at what ALL men make on average, vs. what ALL women make on average, not broken down by profession. change your major from feminist dance therapy to mechanical engineering if you wanna "close the gap"

By  Ashamed_Sister  |  46

From my own personal experience I would like to say that there is no wage gap between genders but a wage gap between professions. I’m studying Civil Engineering and during my summer jobs and my part time job right now I didn’t experience a wage gap between my male colleagues and me, but there was and is a wage gap between me and my high school friends who choose liberal arts. So, if you want to close the imaginary wage gap you simply have to change your major from feminist dance therapy a.k.a. gender studies to civil or mechanical engineering. And stop whining! If you experience a wage gap you most likely deserve it.

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