This is a Nearly FML. It’s an FML, nearly. It got positive votes from the users, by wasn’t approved by our team.

By Godot - 26/04/2017 13:00 - United States - Fontana

Today, I challenged a female acquaintance to justify why "feminism was bad" and her assertion that the gender pay gap myth was "debunked". As citations, she linked me 3 videos of the same person, a known misogynist, giving the same speech in 3 different locations, and two snarky bloggers who looked like college kids. FML
I agree, your life sucks 2 517
You deserved it 1 013

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Your colleague is technically right, despite having poor sources of information. The 'pay gap' is the result of the average annual pay of men compared to women, without taking into considering other factors such as hours worked, shift time worked [antisocial hours], training/qualifications, experience in field, attitude/dedication, field of work ect... --Essentially once you take account of the other factors which effect pay, the gender gap drops to zero. Or if you look a the reverse analysis- if the pay gap was true, why aren't companies saving a tonne on their labour budgets by hiring women instead of men?

This concept of wage gap is stated in such a black and white way that it does fall short of being realistic. However, when you look at why women choose lower paying jobs, how women are asking for raises at similar rates as men but reveiving them less, why women appear less ambitious, or why less women enter stem fields (and if they do, leave at greater rates)... Then you start to see the nuances of how women are more repressed than men. It's not a slam against men. It's a issue that needs to be addressed. A new study shows that the "Ambition Gap" is related to the company worked for and not related to some inherent female need to be paid less, or with motherhood. So if women are not allowing motherhood to stall their career, and STILL, aren't seeking out higher position that pay more, are we going to claim it's because all women are lazy? Can we actually discuss it as if women were humans also? DOL sued Google for systematic pay disparity between genders. UK passed a law forcing companies to release their pay data by April 2018. Lucky's store was sued (and they lost) for forcing women into traditional female roles (i.e cashiering), showing that even at lower paying jobs, women are funneled into positions that pay less (i.e. Traditional roles). This premise that women want less pay, aren't willing to work for it, and are too stupid to ask for a raise is biased.

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Your colleague is technically right, despite having poor sources of information. The 'pay gap' is the result of the average annual pay of men compared to women, without taking into considering other factors such as hours worked, shift time worked [antisocial hours], training/qualifications, experience in field, attitude/dedication, field of work ect... --Essentially once you take account of the other factors which effect pay, the gender gap drops to zero. Or if you look a the reverse analysis- if the pay gap was true, why aren't companies saving a tonne on their labour budgets by hiring women instead of men?

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MrCabbagewank 10

I'm certain it's illegal to pay women and minority workers less because it's classed as discriminatory behaviour.......

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"It's illegal, therefore it doesn't exist". Great argument. I'm sure no one has ever broken the law before. The thing about the gender pay gap is that while the statistics support the notion that it exists as mentioned by David Strange, it's often impossible to prove on an individual case-by-case basis. First of all, people tend not to tell each other how much they make, and also, just because you as an individual are paid less than your coworker (assuming that you'd be able to find out this information in the first place) doesn't necessarily mean beyond a shadow of a doubt that you would be able to prove that that individual case is the result of discrimination (even if it is). But it would be ridiculous to conclude that this discrimination doesn't happen on a large scale basis throughout society, given the statistics. In many cases, the pay difference is the result of subconscious biases that those who determine the pay of a worker might not even be aware of themselves, in which case malicious intent doesn't apply. However, the lack of malicious intent DOES NOT mean a lack of harm.

*David Stranger. Sorry. Can we not edit our comments anymore?

Nowhere in any peer reviewed study does it say that the pay gap is significant when you look at how they got there, and yes islamic countries are extremely sexist, but I don't see what that has to do with first world countries, and schools for boys exist too. If a person of any race, gender, or religion wants more all they have to do is try and they will get similar results, on average in similar starting situations, as a person of any other group of people.

U have been the female paid less for doing more work. I was training the trainee and he was earning $3 an hour more than me, for the same job title. So yes, the wage gap can and does still exist.

If the wage gap doesn't exist, then why do women museum curators make 81 cents to every male curators' dollar? Isn't that a wage gap?

mroy885 0

I honestly do not know how you still believe there is a wage gap after learning the facts. If you wanna talk about laws how about the law created in 1963 that made gender based pay illegal. If you the wage gap actually exists in a company then GO SUE THEM. And what does feminisation of the workplace have to do with it? Al it is is a trend where people try to hire more women? This has nothing to do with the wage gap and could actually be perceived as sexist ( I do not really care) because they are hiring more women than men simply because of sex. I have no idea about sexism in the career process because I am to young to start working at jobs that require more complex hiring processes (Which I know will probably be used against me to say "Oh you're to young to comment on this type of stuff") but I can say with utmost certainty that some of the smartest people I know and who get the highest grades are women so I don't understand how there is "Institutionalized sexism" them. And if there is sexism against anyone in schools it is against guys. Things that girls tend to like are nurtured much more from a young school age and things like action filled stories and books are usually discouraged instead of being nurtured and turned into a love for reading or a better imagination. Instead boys are given books that they hate which turns into a hatred for reading which will bring down all their subjects eventually.

misslauraselina 7

the pay gap isn't a literal $/h difference. the averages for each gender are different because women- far more often than men- have to take time off work to care for children, and therefore may only have access to part time/casual employment while their male counterparts are working full time. women are being financially punished for fulfilling the destiny that society has forced upon them. and I haven't even mentioned superannuation...

but she's right

Did she tell you to shut up and stop mansplaining feminism to her?

AkameGaKill 11

hilarious

That doesn't change the fact that the gender pay gap IS factually a myth.

To those saying the gender pay gap isn't real, there are studies that control for various factors including occupation, and they still conclude that the pay gap is real. Even women who choose higher paying positions still earn less than men for the same position. While the wage gap may be more for women who have children, women who don't have children are still paid less than men. As for other issues such as "attitude" or "dedication", I'd like to see evidence that women are any different than men in those regards. It may not be as simple a matter as saying "women on average make this much, men on average make this much" but even after controlling for everything, women still make less money in general.

awildwhisper 30

Women are less likely to argue for a higher salary or promotion in contrast to the majority of men.

Awildwhisper - women ask for raises as often as men do. They don't get them. Studies were done. Research proves it. This idea that were not fighting for raises we deserve is a bunch of bullshit. As if we're all juat a bunch of nervous nellies fainting from fear. Goddamit, no. Stop propogating this ignorant load of shit.

As far as I've seen every single one of those studies still failed to take other known factors into account. Unless you can prove otherwise, it is still due to women's choice to work less fulltime, fewer hours, more time off, negotiate for raises less, different/lower positions etc and not due to "sexism because they are women". Want to fix this? Get more women to work more in the many hard, dangerous, expensively educated, inflexible, life-long jobs that are currently made up almost entirely of men. Or is it suddenly no longer necessary to have 50-50 representation when it's NOT about cushy, influential, well-paying jobs?

Yeah, currently on my 4th job in medical research. I 100% guarantee you women and men make the same amount in this field, and anecdotal evidence from associates at similar companies lead me to believe the same is true no matter where you look.

Viewerv 2

Look, the gender pay gap isn't just about more women are teachers and there are very few on oil rigs. Because there are even disparities within professions and companies. Two engineers with the same qualifications, experience and working for the same company often have wage disparity. But it's not as simple as companies being evil. Women tend to negotiate less and undervalue their worth. So HR gets away with low balling them. Also, the reason why women don't dominate even if they are cheaper is because many hiring managers also undervalue women. Their qualifications and experience is given less weight then those of men. There is also the intangible of, women get pregnant and are mothers. HR managers do still discriminate against young women for this reason. It's a complex issue that's not as simple as the ol' "women and non-whites need not apply" an actual thing they could put on job ads.

To add to this, women also work fewer hours of overtime (on average), take part time second jobs rather than extending hours at a first, pass up promotions in favor of time at home, or take extended leave/years off from careers. The end result is that a "full time" male and female employee of the same age even in the same profession have different experience. A man who works more hours, takes promotions, and has not taken an extended leave will likely earn significantly more than a woman who does not work overtime, does not take promotions, and has taken an extended leave from work. The US bureau of labor statistics cites all of these as causes of the gap in wages that is observed by dividing total salary of by number of workers of (gender) in (field). After controlling for these, their most recent report left approximately 2 cents of "gap"

Equal Pay act of 1963. enough said but to elaborate, the "pay gap" looks at what ALL men make on average, vs. what ALL women make on average, not broken down by profession. change your major from feminist dance therapy to mechanical engineering if you wanna "close the gap"

From my own personal experience I would like to say that there is no wage gap between genders but a wage gap between professions. I’m studying Civil Engineering and during my summer jobs and my part time job right now I didn’t experience a wage gap between my male colleagues and me, but there was and is a wage gap between me and my high school friends who choose liberal arts. So, if you want to close the imaginary wage gap you simply have to change your major from feminist dance therapy a.k.a. gender studies to civil or mechanical engineering. And stop whining! If you experience a wage gap you most likely deserve it.

The U.S. Department of Labor sued Google this year for systematic compenaation disparity between men and women.

ZDRANO 9

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